October 4, 2005
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The Dead are Beyond Help (or maybe not).
If you’re still alive, then you can still be saved. Maybe you haven’t accepted Jesus yet, but if you think it’s impossible, you can ask Him for help, and He can make you believe. You too can go to Heaven. God is fair, because He’s easy (“God is easy” – I think that will be my new mantra).
But what about those that are already dead, like my grandfather, who was Jewish? Why does he deserve The Burning Hell. Cause we all do? Cause we’re all sinners? That’s vague. The difference between those in Heaven and those in Hell, according to doctrine, is not that some are sinners, it is that those in Heaven accepted Jesus and those in Hell didn’t. That’s the only difference.
So I want to know why does my grandfather, who I love by the way (I’ll say “love” not “loved” because presumably he’s still alive and suffering), have to burn in Hell for all eternity just because he didn’t accept Jesus?
It bothers me that many of you think my grandfather, my great grandmother, who I knew and love, and my aunt’s daughter who died at 9 of a congenital heart and lung defect, are all burning in Hell. That’s not a nice thing to say, let alone believe.
It bothers me that you think that six million Jews that died at Hitler’s hand (wasn’t he Catholic) deserve a fate worse than they suffered on earth. They were burned alive, gassed, shot, experimented on, and then they went to Hell. And if they deserved Hell, then you must believe they deserved what they suffered on earth. They can’t deserve the worse fate without deserving the lesser of the two evils.
Are you evil?
Maybe you think because you’re not gassing anyone that your beliefs aren’t hurting anyone. They are. Evil thoughts enable evil deeds.
Who cares if “our Christian President” tortures prisoners, as long as they are not Christians. It’s a picnic compared to what they’ll get from God when their gone, for example.
But you can change. And then you can change others. But that’s something that won’t happen if you don’t believe it can be done.
Ancient Gnostic texts suggest that the resurrection of Jesus symbolized an awakening from sleep, an awakening from unknowing, an unknowing much like death. Fanatics live in this dream in which they have fixed beliefs and resist change. They are the walking dead, walking in the absence of what the real Jesus knew as love and acceptance.
But I don’t think that they are beyond hope. I don’t think my grandfather is burning eternally, either. I think there is hope for the dead.
Comments (11)
Well, I don't believe in Hell, so therefore, I really don't believe in Heaven, either. I do believe that our spirit goes somewhere else (or reincarnates) after death. I don't believe our souls DIE with our bodies. I also believe in some sort of higher power, be it our collective knowledge, or a divine being, or something else entirely. I've seen unexplainable things happen, but I doubt they've happened by the hand of a white man in a robe.
If you take Heaven and Hell out of the equation (and The End Times), the bible, most of it, is not only tolerable, but wise and wonderful. However, people constantly misinterpret it, or take it word-for-word literally as the holy word of God, and they corrupt it.
Jesus was a Jew, so I highly doubt his people are in Hell, if there IS one.
Not ALL Christians/believers believe that you are doomed to Hell (or make it to Heaven). For example, the Mormons believe in personal growth in the afterlife. Also, most Catholics would never damn someone to hell for not being a Catholic (and they are "christians", in my humble opinion). Also, there are many lighter forms of Christianity that feel the way the Catholics do. It's the evangelical, or fundamental, or pentecostal Christians who give Christians a bad name. The "apologetic" Christians do NOT feel that way, and apologize for those who use God to further their hatred.
I love this logic
good news for gramps
according to THE BIBLE the jews are the chosen people..christians are so blind and apparently illiterate
You really should stop believing that what evangelecals say/believe represents all of Cristianity. Those thoughts are just as evil as the thoughts you complain about and hurt people like me. God is easy BTW a lot easier than "liberals" & "conservatives" realize. as Sayya points out jews are the chosen people.
And what about Bush: Has it ever occured to you that he may have feelings as well? A wife that loves him very much? Daughters that would be devistated if he wer to be hurt? Maybe even parents who feel about him the way you feel about your son?
Now about the prisoners at guantanamo bay: do you really want to compare them to your grandfather? I know I would never compare them to mine. But in that fram of mind imagine you're standing next to one of Adolf Hitlers children. Are you going to stand there beliving that his/her father is burning in hell?
heh, you should stop posting about matters of religion (especially when mixed with matters of politics, isn't this country all about keeping those two seperate?) because the people who read and comment say things like "well jesus was a jew, so i doubt he went to hell..." is this a joke? seriously, do you even know anything about the christian theology you're bashing and so adamantly believe to be false? because if you did you would know that Jesus was God in carnate, which would make it fundamentally impossible for Him to be in hell. they also say things like, "not all christians...for example mormons..." are you kidding me? there is a huge difference between mormon theology and christian theology. also, they say thinks like "according to THE BIBLE the jews are the chosen people...christians are so blind and apparently illiterate." apparently YOU are illiterate, or speaking about the bible when you've NEVER EVEN READ IT (there's a shocker), because in the new testament God sends his son to die as a sacrifice for all and creates a NEW covenant in which ANY man can come directly to God and his sins are atoned for by Jesus, replacing all the sacrificial rituals and atonement rituals of the OLD covenant, thereby joining the jew and the gentile under the banner of Christ. the early church was comprised of jews who accepted Jesus and called themselves christains (meaning christ-like, because that was what they strove for). as far as heaven and hell are concerned, the need for hell arose with the advent of sin. God and sin cannot co-exist, therefore anyone embracing sin in their life can not exist in heaven. it's not like God is punishing people, God created man for fellowship. He is not happy when people deny him and chose to live a life of sin. as far as jews going to hell is concerned, the Bible never says that the OLD covenant under which non-messianic jews live is void. the covenant is still there, it's just "old and busted," so to speak. theoretically, a jew following the Law as it's laid out in the Torah would not go to hell. I say theoretically because i'm not going to claim to know what happens after we die. All i know is what i believe, and i believe in a God who loves me and sent his son to die for me.
I think mightyjoscro is proving my point. Look, Nidan, I'm not saying that this represents all of Christianity and I'm certainly not saying that's what Jesus was truly about I think the Gnostics had it closer to the truth. But this isn't just a few loud voices here. In the US (I don't know if that's where you are or not, certainly, I think the US is worse than other countries), and especially in Georgia where I live (and the rest of the south), this is the predominant view. Even people I work with, nice people, good people, people that I like and I consider friends, good parents and giving people, even they quietly believe (and I know this because I've had quiet conversations with them), that if you don't accept Jesus you will go to Hell. And it doesn't, mightyjoscro, have anything to do with embracing Sin, it has to do with accepting Jesus or not.
Excellent point Prom.. and look at all the emotion it drew out. Ya know, so many people believe in this book that was written so so long ago, but what do we really know?
What I know is that the night my six year old son was about to die I was in Kmart.. and when I saw a certain colorful shirt on a rack that he would love, I had an instant flash of him in a casket in that shirt. It was an image, it had color and clarity, but lasted only a split second. So I bought the shirt and went home. He died two hours later, in my arms. What does that say? Who knows? All I know is that I saw something that had yet to happen, and because of it I made a choice to buy a shirt I planned on buying anyway. My son was buried in that shirt a few days later.
I believe he, and his three year old brother, are happy youngsters, wherever their souls are. I'm sure of it. There is certainly hope for the dead.
Having grown up in georgia yes I do believe that would be the predominant way of thinking. After all Zell Miller has been Georgia's DEMOCRAT senator for years. That really says somthing about the state.
Try living in other areas you'd find that their are place that seem over the top liberal I've there too (San Fran) I will also grant you that these people need to be stopped.
But joining the over the top left is not the way to do it. That only makes the problem worse.
B.T.W. Bush is not one of those guys either. Bush is a politician. No more no less. Like Clinton, Gore, Reagan, and who ever the next republican and Democratic candidates are all bush cares about is appeasing his base. (The only politician I might excuse from that list is Carter)
prometheus, you make it sound as though there is a difference between not accepting jesus and embracing sin.
Nidan - I'm not sure what an over the top liberal is, but I don't think I am one. These labels confuse me because they mean different things to different people. Is it someone who wants to ban the speech of right wingers? Is an ultra liberal someone who wants to fix elections for the left? Do they think that drugs are good for you, or do they think that abortion should be encouraged? I am actually for free speech, even speech I don't like. I am against abortion on ethiical grounds, but I don't htink making it illegal is right or effective. I'm for drug legalization but I wouldn't want people I love doing hard drugs (marijuana I don't give a shit about). I think democracy should be fair and verifiable and I would stand by the results whatever it was. And I would support the installation of a republican if I thought the election was stolen from him (or her), like for example if the 2000 Florida thing went the other way. I think the process and checks and balances are more important than who is in power. And I don't think all politicians are the same, although they are, most anyway, politicians. I don't think the New Orleans officials are without blame, but I am swayed by the fact that there was federal money allocated to levee projects that were in process until it was cut and rediverted to Iraq, a war I don't think was justified was based on lies, and is ineffective and marketed by a president who's motives we have real reason to suspect (conflict of interest). Should New Orleans have found another way to fix the levees? Yes, but money doesn't grow on trees either. So spreading blame doesn't mean Bush is any less at fault for the obvious misteps he made that exacerbated this disaster. Some of his mistepes were ethical violations, like appointing Brownie as a favor for helping him win. To me, that is worse than incompentance, that is theft of the public trust, and a violation of his duty. You can say everyone does it, but that's no excuse. When you get busted you should pay the price, and if that were the rule of the day, maybe we would get better and better politicians until we actually had an honest one.
I think my position is ultra principled, not ultra liberal.
oh, and see how Mightyjoscro is making my point even more clearly than the last time now?
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